Materials, Tools, and Techniques for Outdoor Track

Questions and Ideas to track building, how are you doing it? need help? new features? share your ideas.
Ned
Posts: 368
Joined: Sun 13. Apr 2014 01:02
Location: Sedona, AZ USA

Re: Materials, Tools, and Techniques for Outdoor Track

Post by Ned »

vmibert wrote: You are truly "paving the way" for outdoor Magracing. You might want to see if you are the very first person to do this!
Now all you need are lights, for night driving!
How have you addressed drainage?
Glad you're feeling better Bert. I suspect that I'm the first person to try to build a MagRacing track permanently located outside without any cover or protection of any kind. If others have attempted it, I sure would like to hear from them. Perhaps Keld or another member of this forum knows of a another outdoor track.

Concerning lights - While my cars don't have lights, I do have 2 flood lights shining down on the track so we can do a little night driving. :)

Concerning drainage - The track is built on a gently sloping hill. The elevation drops about 2.5 ft going from the northwest corner to the southeast corner. The soil is predominantly sand with some clay and perhaps 1/2" of crushed red sandstone rock on top. The soil drains well. The hill in the middle is made mostly of fist-size chucks of red rock, river rock, crushed rock and bricks. Water should drain through that very fast! A 3" perforated flexible drain pipe has been installed to facilitate drainage from the base of this hill to a creek bed near the southeast corner where the water goes under a bridge. There is a 1" cavity under most of the foam board. Water drains off the foam board, and some of it into the cavity and down the slope to the southeast corner and continues downhill. If we receive more than an inch of rain in an hour I could have a problem. The track might want to float on top of the water in the cavity underneath.

I did not install drainage ditches along the sides of the roadway because I thought they would impede a car's recovery from a spinout. There were 3 places where water would puddle on the track after a rain. To eliminate these, I drilled 3/8" diameter holes through the foam board and into the cavity underneath. None of these holes are located on the actual roadway surface. So far a car has never run over one of those drain holes.

Thanks for all of the replies.

Ned
vmibert
Posts: 53
Joined: Mon 30. Dec 2013 00:25
Location: Oro Valley, Arizona - U.S.
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Re: Materials, Tools, and Techniques for Outdoor Track

Post by vmibert »

Ned,

Another cool hobby to get into is model R/C tanks:

http://www.desertarmor.com/DAK2/DAK_HOME.html

This group has a really cool outdoor setup in the Phoenix area. I haven't been there in a while - but I have been there a number of times. I created a short video that is on one of their web page links.

People even come to participate from Southern California.

Sincerely,

Bert
Ned
Posts: 368
Joined: Sun 13. Apr 2014 01:02
Location: Sedona, AZ USA

Re: Materials, Tools, and Techniques for Outdoor Track

Post by Ned »

Since my last post about 3 weeks ago, we have had a lot of rain, some of it heavy, with higher humidity in the morning and lower temperatures. The track has been wet with dew every morning with no signs of rust or any other wear. The track seems to be holding up well and it is easy to clean when dry, using a brush and dustpan. Even the yellow striping is staying put.

As you can see from the following 2 pictures, I have spent some time on landscaping. Nearly all of the vegetation is natural and almost all of it is live. The bigger plants were left in their pots and just stuck in the ground. I hope this will retard their growth but not kill them. They will need to be trimmed frequently to keep them small, like bonsai. In the case of the smaller plants, I sometimes cut the bottom out of the pot and planted it and sometimes completely removed the plant from its pot and planted it.

Since MagRacers have reverse, often the driver can recover from a crash. But sometimes this is not possible and this track is too big for someone to reach out with his hand from the perimeter of the layout to pickup a wayward car. I experimented with a strong magnet on the end of a pole to pickup a car but found it unacceptable. So I installed the hexagon stepping stones so that people would have good footing and know where to place their feet to retrieve a wayward car. ( I don't want people trampling all over my layout and destroying it!) Irregular natural flagstones would have looked better but I had these hexagon stones on hand. They will be less noticeable once the vegetation spreads, but I might replace them with flagstones some day.

The culverts are functional in that they facilitate drainage of water through the stream bed (arroyo). The bridge has concrete abutments. The turn nearest the bridge has a racing line. As I indicated in an earlier post, all of the white rectangles in the roadway indicate the location of lane change plates.

Image

Image


In the upper right-hand corner of the next picture you'll see a brick with some white tape on it. That is there temporarily to force cars to turn left when we are running the cars counterclockwise. The brick will be removed when the rest of the track is complete. There is no lane change plate at this location.
At the top of the picture in the center, if you look carefully, you'll see a portable concrete highway barrier in the middle of the road to the right of the pine tree. (These are often called Jersey barriers in the U.S.)

Image


Here is a closeup of the concrete barrier taken when the track was still a little wet and not ready for racing. The barrier is set to force cars to turn right when we are running clockwise. It can be re-positioned to force the cars to turn left. There is a lane change plate here but the barrier prevents the possibility of a mistake. The barrier, which is made out of 1” x 1” poplar, has a neodymium disk magnet embedded in the bottom at both ends. The barrier is held in place by a 5” long 0.080” diameter wire, embedded in the track 0.025” below the track surface. This wire does not interfere with the operation of cars.

Image


Following is a picture of a piece of poplar after it was ripped but prior to any other finishing. The barrier is 1” tall, ¼” wide at the top, and 5/8” wide at the bottom. After ripping, the wood was cut to length and then sanded to remove any sharp edges and the marks left by the circular saw. Using a drill press, holes were drilled to hold the disk magnets. Then the piece was painted and the magnets were glued into the holes.

Image


I estimate that the layout is about 1/2 done now. During the next couple of months I plan to continue improving the landscaping with more plants, rocks, hay bales, and road (highway) signs. I'd also like to add a few people/figures. Could someone suggest where to buy them? I'll also work on my cars. I don't expect to resume construction of more roadway until March. This will probably be my last post under this topic until then, unless someone has a question. I will continue to post information here that I think is appropriate for this topic heading. At some point in the future, I might start a new topic under the Users Section – My Track.

Best wishes to all for a happy holiday season!

Ned
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Lasp
Posts: 313
Joined: Wed 16. Jan 2013 16:35
Location: Helsingborg, Sweden

Re: Materials, Tools, and Techniques for Outdoor Track

Post by Lasp »

Nice work Ned.

I wish I had a bigger area, because MagRacing need some place.

I guess this will last for long time soo you can search for people at Aliexpress.com search for G scale figures!

Or put "linda model shop" in the search engine.

Best wisches from Lasp ;-)
vmibert
Posts: 53
Joined: Mon 30. Dec 2013 00:25
Location: Oro Valley, Arizona - U.S.
Contact:

Re: Materials, Tools, and Techniques for Outdoor Track

Post by vmibert »

Ned,

WOW!! I can't wait for your videos!

Guess I'll have to take you up on your offer and see your track, in person (If I do - I most certainly will check with you first to coordinate a date that works for you).

I need to get back to my track - I spent this past weekend putting up decorations, for Christmas. I think I'll have some time over the holidays to really get mine going. My landscaping will have to be fake, unlike yours!

Sincerely,

Bert
rex craemer
Posts: 456
Joined: Thu 4. Dec 2014 09:53
Location: cologne

Re: Materials, Tools, and Techniques for Outdoor Track

Post by rex craemer »

amazing , whow,cant wait to see it finished. will start a outdoorprojekt in a few weeks (winter).i got many impressions from your track.will make a lot like you .greetings markus
Nor Cal Mike
Posts: 183
Joined: Fri 21. Dec 2012 22:22

Re: Materials, Tools, and Techniques for Outdoor Track

Post by Nor Cal Mike »

Your track reminds me of the old Riverside Raceway in Southern California. It is cool to see what you are doing in the great outdoors.
Ned
Posts: 368
Joined: Sun 13. Apr 2014 01:02
Location: Sedona, AZ USA

Re: Materials, Tools, and Techniques for Outdoor Track

Post by Ned »

My track has held up very well to our winter weather. Had 8" of snow on it January 1. Over the past few months several rain storms and at least 30 mornings with frost on the track.

For those of you new to magnetically guided scale model auto racing (MagRacing) or those building heavier cars or a new track, you might find the following info useful.

As indicated in previous posts, my track is permanently located outside unprotected from the weather. The length of the current circuit ranges from 60.5' to 69' depending on the course driven. The baseboard is 1” thick XPS foam insulation board, which is much easier to twist, bend, gouge, and deform inadvertently compared to MDF or plywood.

For my cars, when measured using non-magnetic shims:
1. the clearance between the bottom of the guide magnet and a smooth wooden table top is about .025”
2. the clearance between the bottom of the guide magnet and the top of a bare .032” diameter wire, when the car tires are at rest on a non-magnetic surface that is perfectly flush with the top of the wire, is about .005”.

This implies that the attractive force between the magnet and the wire bends down the guide arm holding the magnet and pulls the magnet about .020” closer to the .032” diameter wire.

In the case of my track, which has .032” music/piano wire throughout, I estimate that the distance between the bottom of the guide magnet and the top of the wire ranges from .000” to .012”. The guide magnet scrapes the wire in a few spots where the wire is bare, thus .000” clearance. (It's bare because I sanded off too much paint in hopes of eliminating the scraping. Instead of sanding, I have since resorted to applying layers of paint beside the wire where the car tires contact the track surface.) Combined these bare spots are no more than 3” long. From other tests I know that the coating/paint on top of the baseboard and wire is usually about 4-6 mils thick. Other tests on the track indicate that the clearance between the top of the coating/paint covering the wire and the bottom of the guide magnet is usually in the neighborhood of .003”- .005”. From these observations and measurements, along with others, I have concluded that the bottom of the guide magnet of my cars is usually running about .005 to 0.010” above the top of the wire, and .002” to .006” above the coating/paint that is covering the wire. For comparison, one strand of hair from the top of my head measures .001” - .002”.

With clearances in this range, I never loose the wire on a straight section of track. The only time I loose the wire is when I'm going around a turn too fast. I have been able to run a 60.5 ft long lap in 9 seconds. At 1:32 scale that is an average of 147 mph. The sharpest curve has a 9” radius (At 1:32 scale that is 24'). That turn is banked 8 degrees. Some of my cars can run the 60.5' in 13 seconds with a constant throttle, which implies a speed of about 100 mph around that 24' radius banked turn. That seems fast enough to me for that type of turn. Top speed of my cars is about 200mph.

I would be interested in hearing about the experience of other magracers. What clearance are you running? With what diameter of wire? Or do you use thin steel strip instead of wire? What is your track baseboard? Is your wire glued on top of your baseboard or in a slot/groove in the baseboard? Do your cars experience front end shimmy (front wheel dancing) at high speeds? How fast can you go around tight turns? With what kind of tires? All of these factors are inter-related.

I suspect that the best way to make an indoor track is to use Medium Density Fiberboard (MDF) as the track baseboard and 0.1 mm x 4 mm (.004” x .157”) nickel plated steel strip for guidance instead of piano wire. I'd apply one coat of very light gray undercoat paint to the MDF. When dry, and after a light sanding, I'd mark out the board to indicate the location of the steel strip and then with a router, cut a grove 0.15 mm deep and 5 mm wide in the MDF. Then I'd run a small bead of non-acidic glue down the shallow groove. Lexel should work well for this. Following that, I'd place a strip of nickel plated steel strip on top of the glue and then use a wallpaper seam roller to press the thin steel strip into the glue and flush with the top of the MDF. The diameter of the guide magnet of a standard magracer sold by Wes is 4 mm. Using this method, the top of the steel strip should be flush with the top of the painted MDF +/- 0.03 mm, about 0.001”. When the glue is well cured, which might take a few days, I'd apply a thin coat of flat latex paint to the road/track surface and steel strip. Two to 4 mils of dry paint film should be enough to cover the undercoat and create the appearance desired. I suspect that with a track built this way, one could run cars with a clearance of .004” - .006” between the bottom of the guide magnet and the top of the steel strip. Keep in mind there would be .002" - .004" of paint on top of the steel strip. If I were to build an indoor track, this is the approach I'd try.

If 0.1 mm thick x 4 mm strip does not provide enough guidance, I'm almost certain that 0.2 mm x 4 mm would, assuming a clearance of .004 - .006". Nickel plated steel strip is available on ebay and comes in rolls. Steel tape with pressure sensitive adhesive already applied would be even better. I have not been able to find 0.1 mm or 0.2 mm x 4 mm wide nickel plated steel tape with pressure sensitive adhesive already applied. If you know of where I could buy some, please let me know.

If I were building an indoor track and had an inexpensive way to cut slots in MDF which are .035” wide x .035, deep to accommodate 0.032” diameter music wire, without breaking a lot of router bits, I would go that way. But MDF is hard to cut with a .035” router bit! Foam insulation board is easy to cut but not as smooth, flat, or tough as MDF. Even so, foam insulation board can be used to make a very good track that is weather resistant.
rex craemer
Posts: 456
Joined: Thu 4. Dec 2014 09:53
Location: cologne

Re: Materials, Tools, and Techniques for Outdoor Track

Post by rex craemer »

if i understand you right, you have a problem with frontend shimming on the long straight. first point i think is, the wire has to be more than 100% straight. but i think you made it so.point two are the magnets. try to push them down a little bit. the highest force you have, if the guidemagnet and the sidemagnets are on the same level. as higher you install the sidemagnets, as lower the power of the magnet will hold the arm straight and quiet. you have to test it, if its to much power, the lane changes wont work. i installed cartonspacers at the steeringcoil, to minimise the space between the magnets and the coil . so the steering efect will get stronger. than i had the efect that i could steer ot of the wire on every point of the track,shit for beginners and just not good for all. next step was to change the guidingmagnet into 5x3.no running out the wire, no frontend shimmy at full speed, better function of the lc. i built my track so that you cant loose the wire normaly,(only full speed in a curve and spin out).nothing fucks more than loosing the wire. beginners will loose the interest if there is not one round without loosing the car. i can proudly say that i have(nearly)found perfect conditiones. if i see, what great steps i made from the beginning to now,with a lot of testing and also the very good tips,ideas, and ecperiences from all you guys here in the forum.i have taken a lot of in my thinking thanks markus
rex craemer
Posts: 456
Joined: Thu 4. Dec 2014 09:53
Location: cologne

Re: Materials, Tools, and Techniques for Outdoor Track

Post by rex craemer »

i have forgotten one thing it maybe can help. on difficult points, were the cars loose the wire i laid a wire on the inside of the first. more magnetforce, it works good.
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