Idea on different guide wire set-up allowing cars to skid

Questions and Ideas to track building, how are you doing it? need help? new features? share your ideas.
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martin
Posts: 7
Joined: Wed 30. Sep 2015 20:22

Idea on different guide wire set-up allowing cars to skid

Post by martin »

First of all, apologies for this long first post. I don't have Magracing. I purchased Kickstarter Real FX as I thought it would be a better system, but I'm disappointed with it.

I personally am looking for:
- a system that provides a greater amount of freedom for the cars. To me the car should take a corner line dictated by what the tires can do given track surface and speed.
- preferably a larger scale (1:27), with proportional steering (servo).

One thing I've learned though, the guide wire is the only system that works so far, and can be home build.

The idea: Wires in V's, like >>>>>>>>>, centered on the racing line. There is no continuous wire, the magnet "jumps" from wire to wire as the car moves forward ,and the steering electromagnets would be able to influence the steering in between the V's everywhere on the track. The steering angle becomes a mix of forces the track wires, and forces the electromagnetic input exercise on the steering system. Thus in principal, it should steer by handheld controller input more at low speed, and less​ at high speed, as the more wires pass per second the less the influence of the electromagnet is.
​It would require lots of guide wiring, like​ 10mm​ maximum between the V's in turns, and likely additional wiring between the V's on outside of turns. Cars would likely not require modifications.

I believe it would result in:
- all cars follow in principle the racing line, they get guided to the "points" of the V's
- if they go too fast into a corner they can run wide and auto steer back to the line.
- ​steering anywhere on the track​
​-​ ​system​ requires less force/distance between wire and magnet​, the car should "leave" the wires fairly easily. This would also allow​ the "​track ​cover​"​ system​, a solid plate covering all wires.​
- if it works the game would be to play with speed, and use steering to set up the car for another line thru the corner to pass

I've done ​a ​simple test with a 10x3mm magnet​ (from a name plate) on top of a 5mm thick glass plate, and it follows the wire underneath​​. Whether it still has the force to turn the wheels is a question

I think the angle of V would be a compromise between how fast it auto steers (narrow V), and how fast it steers manually (wide V), so ​90 degrees, ​45 each side​,​ seems the middle way.

To only test it:
I think the best & easiest is to build a small circular track, 40 cm or so diameter for the "racing line". Cut the V grooves for the wires, and drill a hole on the point of the V to be able to put the 90 degree bend in the wire in (drilling the holes first is easier). Cover it with something solid up to 2?mm. DIY store has cheap 2mm wooden plates, plexiglass etc.
If it works, at low speeds you should be able to steer to the inside of the 40cm diameter "ideal line", as well as to the outside. And with increasing speed the car should start to run at a greater than 40 cm diameter line, and come back when you decrease speed. But at 40 cm diameter your looking at qty 125 V's spaced at 10 mm

The major question I think is if 10mm spacing between V's is enough. Maybe it needs to be 5mm..

Anyways, I thought the concept is valid and wanted to share it.

Martin
Jeee
Posts: 48
Joined: Tue 5. May 2015 07:32

Re: Idea on different guide wire set-up allowing cars to ski

Post by Jeee »

Can you draw a sketch to make me understand it better?

I also wrote some points on the steering item: viewtopic.php?p=3142#p3142 (and link in there). Maybe it gives you more ideas ;-).
martin
Posts: 7
Joined: Wed 30. Sep 2015 20:22

Re: Idea on different guide wire set-up allowing cars to ski

Post by martin »

sure, this shows the 4 wheels and the steering magnet on a straight section of track where the racing line is on the left side of the track. The blue lines are the wires.

Martin
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SlotCarRental_com
Posts: 41
Joined: Sat 10. Aug 2013 08:39

Re: Idea on different guide wire set-up allowing cars to ski

Post by SlotCarRental_com »

I think for the most part the cars may drive right over each wire in an almost straight line, each time only adjusting toward the center angle poing a little bit.
The angle would have to be more acute than 30 degrees.


I do not think that would work on curves... if you were to the outside of the curve it would just drive off the track.


It might work for infield auto-correction.
martin
Posts: 7
Joined: Wed 30. Sep 2015 20:22

Re: Idea on different guide wire set-up allowing cars to ski

Post by martin »

SlotCarRental_com wrote:I think for the most part the cars may drive right over each wire in an almost straight line, each time only adjusting toward the center angle poing a little bit.
The angle would have to be more acute than 30 degrees.
I do not think that would work on curves... if you were to the outside of the curve it would just drive off the track.
It might work for infield auto-correction.
Slotcarrental.com - thanks for the input. I've read some, and I understand what you want to set up. If anyone ought to be interested,it should be you.

Wes also thinks it won't work (I contacted him before posting, nice guy, immediate response, and that's why he's not responding on this). I still do think it would work on a light weight car as in Mag racing. The current magnetic force is such that the cars can spin around the magnet. But that is because the car should not leave the wire.

A possibly better concept is many parallel wires, and these lines converging into a corner/apex. If you put these in around the racing line, the car has a choice of picking up one coming out of the corner. Tire forces would be more important than magnet forces. Imagine 10 wires on a straight 30mm apart, but into the apex they become 5 mm apart.

If the electromagnet steering is strong enough vs wire spacing, you could select a line before going into a corner.

Martin
Jeee
Posts: 48
Joined: Tue 5. May 2015 07:32

Re: Idea on different guide wire set-up allowing cars to ski

Post by Jeee »

Thats why I suggested using a coil instead of a magnet. It can be turned of when steering is enabled. You might even be able to do without wires on the straights after the car is already going straight out of a corner (except maybe on the 2 outsides that turn inwards on the end of the straight so cars stay on the track unless really driven off). But all this stays theoretical till someone actually tries and tests it (maybe they even already did). And if the people able to do that won't it will not happen ;-).
SlotCarRental_com
Posts: 41
Joined: Sat 10. Aug 2013 08:39

Re: Idea on different guide wire set-up allowing cars to ski

Post by SlotCarRental_com »

Many ideas have been had for magsteer cars. But eventually we end up back to were we are, with what Wes currently has.


I thought about using 3 different coils, in place of the lead magnet.

The lane changes would then simply be a parallel wire, to the left, or right, of the main center wire.

The circuit would default the center coil to be "on", with no driver input, and then change to the left or right coil with left or right input.

The downside is, that if you give left/right input where there is no lane change, you would be disconnecting your car from the wire... so you would have to counter this by having the center coil on at least a little bit, when turning. And then there is the problem of the car being aligned with the wrong coil/lane combination.


I do kind of like the concept, of using a coil for the main lead magnet, as you could vary the grip with it.
The coils voltage could be varied, or even pulse at varying rates, to change the amount of grip/traction... to simulate tire wear.

In a few months, I will have my own 3D printer, and laser cutter, so I will be experimenting with my own custom chassis, and re-producible track designs.
Form 2, and Glow Forge

Coupon for $100 off your own glowforge: http://glowforge.com/referred/?kid=EcL9AG
It is too late to get one for 50% off though.
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