Feasibility of 1/43 scale magracing?

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HeliumFrog
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Feasibility of 1/43 scale magracing?

Post by HeliumFrog »

I have just been looking at the slotforum 1/43 scale builds and this gave me the idea of maybe doing a magracing track at this scale. Room in my house is quite limited and a smaller scale track really appeals to me.
http://www.slotforum.com/forums/index.php?showforum=167

Clearly inside these cars there is very little room, but I do know that some RC cars have been done at 1/87 scale so this may be possible.
My initial thoughts are to do a car which doesn't have any steering (fixed front wheels) with the magnet placed exactly on the front axle centre line. This way the rear of the car can drift around the magnet pivot. The car would need to hold a battery, motor and a small single channel receiver for throttle only.

I would probably do a rally single lane track at first with no lane changes. If I did want to do any lane changes, maybe this could be done with some active track mechanism instead of the current lane change plate method. I'm currently thinking of a hall effect sensor buried in the track with an active point setup. This is something I really want to try with my 1/32 magracing anyhow.

Please post up any thoughts you might have as to alternative methods. A group brainstorm might trigger an idea I haven't thought of.
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MagRacer
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Re: Feasibility of 1/43 scale magracing?

Post by MagRacer »

Hi HeliumFrog
I have also been thinking the same, because of limited space. I tried the Kyosho dnano cars 1/43 and they look great on a track, so I think it could be worth it to create a smaller scale. Would it not be possible to use the same electronics and the same coil in a smaller version of the magracer chassis?
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Keld
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Re: Feasibility of 1/43 scale magracing?

Post by Keld »

I think the biggest problemis the battery space
/Keld
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HeliumFrog
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Re: Feasibility of 1/43 scale magracing?

Post by HeliumFrog »

Battery space is quite limited, but I have noticed most 1/43 cars have black windows and no interior detail. This gives a bit more room above for any radio gear. I know Wes also looked at some 3.7v Lipo button batteries and this may be an option. The cars could be lighter and have a slightly smaller motor. The steering coil is also the major drain for the battery. Without this the cars would run much longer on a smaller battery.

@Magracer
I do think that the current magracing chassis isn't actually 1/32 (Its too wide for a standard saloon car) but I think with a bit of work the size could be reduced quite a bit.
Ned
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Re: Feasibility of 1/43 scale magracing?

Post by Ned »

I have devoted a considerable amount of time designing, building, and testing a smaller chassis to fit small 1/32 slot car bodies. The 3 cars shown below have custom chassis. None of these bodies would fit a standard magracing chassis.

Image

Image

I am currently working on a slightly smaller version of my chassis to fit a 1967 Porsche 910.

The standard 10440 battery, steering coil, and receiver board will not fit in a 1/43 scale race car, even without any interior detail. The standard receiver board, with a much smaller battery, and without the standard steering coil would fit in a 1/43 saloon car without any interior detail.

I'll be surprised if a 1/43 magnetically guided car will perform at realistic scale speeds, around realistic scale corners, without steerable front wheels (with fixed front wheels). At the very least it will require a lot of experimentation involving the diameter of the wire, size and strength of the guide magnet, and traction of both the front and rear wheels. I suspect that front tires with very little grip would work best, if the front end is not steerable. Probably the track would have to be very flat, smooth, and without bumps and banked curves.

The Kyosho dNaNo cars do look great and are very realistic but the track and performance certainly are not. I prefer great looking realistic cars, running on a realistic track at realistic speeds. I think 1/32 magracing provides all of that with custom chassis fitted to available slot car bodies.

For those, like me, who don't have room for a 1/32 scale layout in your home, you might want to consider creating a permanent track outside in the garden. Mine is working well now that I put a canopy made of shade cloth over it, to protect it from the intense sun in the summer. The canopy also helps keep it clean.

Image

Image
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HeliumFrog
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Re: Feasibility of 1/43 scale magracing?

Post by HeliumFrog »

@Ned

It would be great if you could post up a picture of your 1/32 chassis and what battery and layout you are finding successful.

@all

I have done a few designs myself for 1/32 RC cars and am currently just re engineering the front for a magracer. Look at the bottom of the page from the following link for the latest chassis design.

http://www.heliumfrog.com/RadioControl/ ... _cars.html

The 3D FDM printed wheels actually work really well, particularly now I have modified the print so you don't have to ream the centre hole out too much. They are very concentric. I also use some rubber silicone vacuum hose for the tyres and this works OK (Not much grip). An alternative is non reinforced nitrile rubber hose. This is a bit more difficult to get hold of but gives much better grip on say a wooden floor. What I learned from the RC cars is directly transferable to magracing. FDM printing not too detailed, but you could always go to SLS printing to get a finer finish.

The 1/43 chassis is a bit of a pipe dream and I think you are right that there are some difficulties. One in particular is the small wheel diameter which makes the chassis very close to the floor. I think for now 1/32 saloon size would be the limit.
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Re: Feasibility of 1/43 scale magracing?

Post by Ned »

There are a lot of pictures of the chassis at
http://www.magracingforum.com/viewtopic ... 3&start=30

Below are top and bottom photos of 2 chassis completely assembled minus the bodies.

Image

The front of one of the chassis was trimmed away because it interfered with the body. The head of the steel screw that protrudes from the top of the chassis between the front wheels is attracted to a magnet that is glued to the underside of the body. That head also fits into a notch which I fabricated. That prevents the screw head, and thus the chassis, from sliding forward, left, or right relative to the body, upon impact in a crash. A bumper like the one used in a stock magracer is not needed.

Image

More info and photos of one of the cars can be seen at
viewtopic.php?f=4&t=579
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HeliumFrog
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Re: Feasibility of 1/43 scale magracing?

Post by HeliumFrog »

@Ned

Thanks for all the chassis information. I too am keen on 3D printing and have experimented with both FDM and SLA printing. As FDM printers are much cheaper and the parts are also very low cost I am experimenting with a chassis printed in PLA on my delta printer I have at home. With some careful design I am sure I can print a complete chassis without any overhangs. I tend to use brass bolts in my designs (M2 and smaller) for the pivots, but am experimenting with rivets and similar items.

It would be interesting to see how 3D printed wheels work. The standard chassis has hard plastic wheels, so this could be done in SLS or of course there are rubber printing methods now and even single parts printed with both hard and soft components joined together.
walker

Re: Feasibility of 1/43 scale magracing?

Post by walker »

Since I am slotracing in 43rd scale exclusively ( only scratchbuilt, not the buyable toys ) I would switch to Mg racing in 43rd scale at once, IF

- I could build open cars like Can Ams etc
- there was space for even a presaged cockpit area.

There are the so - called "Micro sizers". They are steerable by the same coil actuators as the mag racers.
Their batteries are still "huge" compared to what is possible today. And I think there are accus small but powerful enough on the market.
The gears would be usable.
The motors are really tiny of course, but maybe one could use the next size - 15x12x10 mm, which for example are available at 3,5 V / 15 000 or more ( or less ) rpm.
The main problem IMO would be the construction of very small receivers with speed control and steering.
Since the availability of bodies is almost endless by the huge number of resin kits and diecasts, which could be converted into vacuforming stamps, I think there would be some potential in 43rd scale, too.

This is a sketch of a 43rd scale slotcar chassis of the porsche 917K, used under a resin body.
Isn´t there enough space for the RC components ?

Image

Regards,

Roland
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Re: Feasibility of 1/43 scale magracing?

Post by BriG »

Hi guys,

I've been following the forum just about every day to see what's new anxiously awaiting the release of the next generation of 1/32 magracers, and I hope the path doesn't wander from the 1/32 scale. I've been closely watching what Ned has done with adapting other 1/32 bodies and producing adjustable wheelbase chassis, and he has really been a pioneer in taking the cars to the level where they need to be. In my opinion you're going to lose so much in going to a smaller scale, not to mention practically having to start from scratch. I have yet to get my hands on one of the original cars, but I'll tell you, if you made the internals and controllers available, with Ned's chassis you're going to have sales just so people can have what they need to get started. They could choose whatever 1/32 bodies are out there already, put together cars, and get going. That's not going to keep the next generation car from happening. if anything it should spark some interest. I probably don't have the skills in doing what Ned did with the 3D chassis work, but I would have followed a similar route if I had the original cars already.

I just feel the 1/32 scale offers the most options with what's out there in the slot car world already, plus I think the size offers the most versatility as far as track and realism. I gather that's part of what Wes' vision was when he started.

Brian
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