Magracing notes, Nov. 2015

Tips and tricks about building a car. painting it a making it run smooth.
WesR
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Magracing notes, Nov. 2015

Post by WesR »

Due to recent interest, we are producing a further small batch of cars. Small improvements make these the best so far.
The rear axle bearings have been improved to provide a better running rear axle. When assembling cars, every effort is made to ensure free movement of all steering parts and front wheels as this gives positive lane changing.
We no longer stock card for the card track surface system but still recommend the ready mixed plaster system. This is particularly easy to modify afterwards or to add extra lane changes etc. 22swg (0.7mm) piano wire is still our preference for the guide wire. Cars will not easily cross thicker wire when driven back onto the track.
Ned
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Re: Magracing notes, Nov. 2015

Post by Ned »

Good news concerning improved axle bearings and availability of cars.

Concerning wire, Wes writes that “22swg (.07mm) piano wire is still our preference for the guide wire.” I suspect that Wes meant (0.7 mm), since 22swg = 0.711 mm diameter =0.028” diameter.

I have been using 21swg = 0.813 mm diameter = 0.032” diameter piano wire embedded in 1” thick rigid foam insulation board for my outdoor track. The cross sectional area of 21swg is 30% greater than 22swg.

For most of my track, the top of the wire is about 0.005” below the surface of the foam board prior to the final coat of paint. For a track permanently located outdoors made from rigid foam insulation and 0.032” diameter wire, it’s better to have the top of the wire slightly below the surface of the foam board rather than above. This allows for a couple of extra coats of paint to be applied above the wire with the excess scraped off prior to application of the final coat of paint over the entire track surface. This helps (along with glue) to hold the wire in the groove. The extra mass of the guide wire more than compensates for the greater distance between the top of the wire and the bottom of the guide magnet in the car.
WesR
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Re: Magracing notes, Nov. 2015

Post by WesR »

Quite correct re. 0.7mm of course Ned! Re. wire diam., I guess if your wire is slightly below the track surface, the effect is probably similar to having 0.7mm flush with the track. Heavier wire will certainly reduce any steering shimmy which I feel is the only small fault with the system. Not a problem with lightweight bodies but more so if using heavier injection moulded bodies. In defence of the system I would say that, for serious racing, which is what I had in mind, as in r/c racing, no one would use anything other than the lightest available body. Slot cars, being vastly overpowered, would never notice the difference!
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Lasp
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Re: Magracing notes, Nov. 2015

Post by Lasp »

The track is the Key! I use 0,6 mm at the straight part of the track, just too reduce magnets and then its more useful with 0.8 mm in the corners.
Thats is also right that the painting will make some differens in magnetic holding.
It takes several tracks too get the right feeling. Good Luck says Lasp
rex craemer
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Re: Magracing notes, Nov. 2015

Post by rex craemer »

you are right lasp, testing, changing ,testing and learn
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Keld
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Re: Magracing notes, Nov. 2015

Post by Keld »

WesR wrote: In defence of the system I would say that, for serious racing, which is what I had in mind, as in r/c racing, no one would use anything other than the lightest available body. Slot cars, being vastly overpowered, would never notice the difference!

All serious slotcar racers also go for the lightest available body, in 1/24 slotcar where we started 12 years ago with a 66 gr. heavy Nascar body, and 40 gr. heavy plastik kit from fujimi of a Porsche 917K, we are today using fiberglass bodies, a complete body incl. driver figure and windows, paint, decals and clear coat is about 12-16 gr. :yes

So I will soon I hope start making my 1/24 magracing cars, now I have the correct bodies to test.
It would be interesting to find out how big a wire there should be used.


Image

I have many Porsche 917K from plastik kits weight around 40-50 gr. with a lot of paint and clear coat, over the first years of fiberglass bodies 35, 30, 25 gr. and the latest we have is 15 gr. and used on the same chassis i can feel the difference and see the difference on the times, and that is a lot. we keep fighting to find that 0.1 gr. to remove from the top of the car and place it in the bottom.
/Keld
Ned
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Re: Magracing notes, Nov. 2015

Post by Ned »

For me the realistic modeling of cars, track, and landscape provides as much enjoyment as racing. To my way of thinking, realistic model car racing requires a system which provides for multiple cars with the ability to change lanes, take the racing line, accelerate, brake, and corner all at realistic speeds. Wes has provided this. Where his system falls just a little short, in my opinion, is in the realism of the car bodies.

It’s clear to me that most slot car enthusiasts, even serious racers, prefer finely detailed and decorated scale model bodies over the drab slot car bodies available in the 1960’s. This is indicated by the time, expense, and trouble that racers like Keld go to, in order to have beautiful as well as fast cars. Moreover, nearly all new ready to run slot cars sold today have much more detailed, and painted bodies compared to those sold in the 1960s and 70s. Clearly most slot car racers are willing to pay for better looking bodies.

It even appears that most members of this form prefer highly detailed, decorated, realistic bodies over plain white vacuum formed bodies. I have yet to see a video posted on this form of plain white cars racing around some track. Everybody does at least some painting and decorating of their bodies, which of course Wes expected. The fact that Markus (rex craemer) has spent considerable effort in fitting detailed realistic injection molded slot car bodies to his magracing chassis also suggests a preference for detailed realistic bodies.

A heavier injection molded body would increase the total combined weight of the chassis, body, and battery by about 20%. With the stock motor, the extra weight would undoubtedly reduce acceleration and perhaps top speed too. Depending on the shape of the circuit, number of turns, amount of straights, and banking it may not affect lap times very much for the typical driver. It certainly would reduce runtime from a fully charged battery. But I’d be willing to pay that price as well as the extra monetary cost of an injection molded body with fine detail.

Speed per se is not what’s fun about auto racing. It’s the competition between closely matched cars operated by drivers with similar skills. If all magracers had injection molded bodies, the cars would be similar and they would still perform in a realistic way with Wes’s system.

I suspect that magracing would be more popular and grow faster if Wes offered some injection molded bodies specifically to fit the mag chassis or alternatively he offered some 1/32 slot car bodies with specific instructions on how to fit them to the mag chassis. An accurate 1/32 scale model 1970-1971 Ferrari 512S Berlinetta slot car body should fit the standard mag chassis with no modifications to the chassis. I’m sure that there are other bodies that would fit a standard mag chassis without significant modifications to the chassis. Perhaps forum members could start developing a list of slot car bodies that will fit the mag chassis without any change to the wheelbase or front track (tread) and another list where only the length of the chassis has to be increased, since the later is fairly easy.

What do the rest of you guys think? Would an injection molded body make the cars run too slow? Do you prefer vacuum formed bodies like those available now, or would you prefer more realistic but heavier injection molded bodies with fine detail? What about compiling a list? Would people be willing to pay more for a more realistic body? How much more? Plain unpainted? Or painted and decorated? Should Wes offer injection molded bodies? All comments welcome. What do YOU think?
rex craemer
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Re: Magracing notes, Nov. 2015

Post by rex craemer »

hello all, i said to wes, he shoud try it with ready to run cars, because there are many guys who dont have the nerv to cut, glue, paint and install the body on the car. you can make the original bodys look very nice (see kelds cars, or others in this forum) , but you have to be good in handcraft skills. the guys that drive with me all said, they dont want to build a car by themself, because they got two left hands. they are willing to spend more money, but dont want to work hard and long on the cars. to build a track is for some people hard enough. i made the experience that less weight is not automatic faster.on my track the heavier cars get a little better grip, so the times are the same as the lighter ones.
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Keld
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Re: Magracing notes, Nov. 2015

Post by Keld »

I agry, ready to drive cars is a must if we want this to be much bigger.
I slotracing there are many guys who can't paint there bodies, I make one almost each week to another guy, even selling my own cars all the times since so many guys cant do this.

it is the same with tracks, in my club we are maybe 20 guys and 2 of us can build the track, rest of the guys only want to race.

if we want the young ones to get interested it should be modern cars, even that i prefer the late 60's and earli 70's cars
/Keld
WesR
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Re: Magracing notes, Nov. 2015

Post by WesR »

Good to hear the continued enthusiasm for Magracing. I look forward to hearing more from Keld re. 1/24 scale. One benefit of a larger scale would be the possibility of single seat F1 or similar cars.
Thanks Ned and all for your suggestions. This sort of project does take money however and, on my limited retirement savings, many things are just not affordable.
The problem with injection moulded bodies, apart from the steering shimmy, is the cost. A basic simple Porsche 908 would, I estimate, cost in the region of $5000 plus. To do justice to this spend also, I would want to see the correct wheels (as most slot cars would have) in which case you are looking at a further $1500.
Looking at more modern cars, we also have to consider the possibility of having to pay royalties to the manufacturers.
Certainly, with F.1., this is the case. For a few hundred vac. formed bodies we can get away with it but for the thousands which would have to be sold to justify an injection body, there is a risk of the car manufacturer finding out. I believe that cars over 30 years old are exempt but it is a 'grey' area legal wise. I built my own vac forming machine so the 8 bodies I have made so far have cost around $300 plus my time!
Injection bodies would be more or less finished but would still need painting. Not a big problem but we find that, for racing, if we have say 5 or 6 cars racing, it is easier if they are all different colours. It is possible to have yellow Ferrari's! Several Belgian cars raced in this colour!
In my previous existence as an r/c car manufacturer, we sold around 150000 cars,all with vac formed bodies and all in kit form. Still the case today I think with competitive r/c cars. Not just the body to paint but all the car to assemble and the radio to install.
When I started this project, I looked at the model railway/railroad hobby. Many thousands of enthusiasts spend hundreds of hours building their tracks. They all also seem to find space in their house, cellar, garage, shed, etc for their track.
I worry that if people cannot paint a body, they will never build a track.
Whatever, I have enjoyed it all and I think most of our customers have too.
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